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PHOTOS
Ford Focus
(Enlarge photo)
Is the Ford Focus available with the Mazda 6's 2.3-liter engine in certain states? Technically, yes.

Saturn Vue
(Enlarge photo)
Is the Saturn Vue a worthy alternative to the Volvo XC90? Maybe, if you're really into zero-percent financing.

Honda Pilot
(Enlarge photo)
There's a slight rattle in our Honda Pilot's passenger door panel, but we keep forgetting about it unless the radio is off and we're on a really bumpy road.

Saturn Ion
(Enlarge photo)
When is a four-door car a coupe? When it's a different kind of coupe from a different kind of company.

Subaru STi
(Enlarge photo)
A reader wants us to do a comparison test of sporty cars like the STi and RX-8. Who are we to argue?

Letters to the Editors
Send a letter to the editors

April 2003
By editors at Edmunds.com
Date Posted 05-01-2003

Subject: Drivetrains
From: Chris

I'm a bit confused about the nature of four-wheel drive in trucks. A friend of mine mentioned that most American trucks have an "open rear," meaning that power is sent to only one of the rear wheels at a time. It shifts back and forth as to which wheel slips more. My question is: when 4WD is engaged, does this mean that the front axle sends power to only one wheel also, or are all four wheels actually being driven? Why the 1WD anyway? Do non-AWD live-axle SUVs feature the same system? How about 2WD performance trucks like the F-150 Lightning?

There are many ways to refer to an open differential in which only one wheel on an axle gets power. Everything from "open diff" to "one legger" to "non posi" has been used, but in every case it means the same thing, and the manufacturers use it because it's less sophisticated and provides smoother operation during typical street driving than the alternatives (of which there are many). When referring to the opposite type of differential, "limited slip" is probably the most common term, and it essentially means that power is divided between two wheels on a given axle, thus reducing the chances of losing traction when trying to accelerate on a slippery surface. When engaging four-wheel drive, power is sent to both axles, but without locking or limited-slip differentials a four-wheel-drive vehicle is essentially a vehicle with two "open diff" axles. The same is true of all-wheel drive. You can learn more about these systems by reading our story What Wheel Drive? — Ed.


Subject: Burying Old Stereotypes
From: Denise

Despite a plethora of corroborating research, Philip Reed finds it hard to believe that consumers continue to experience increased satisfaction with the auto purchase process.

His attack on Automotive Retailing Today's (ART) car buyers' satisfaction survey perpetuates outdated misperceptions. His sentiments clearly contradict those of a growing number of Americans who are more than satisfied with the auto buying experience.

ART's survey indicates that customers are making use of available on-line resources and are entering dealerships more educated than ever before about vehicle features, pricing, options and performance. Our research revealed that 78 percent of Asians prepare for their purchase experience by using the Internet, as do 49 percent of Caucasians, 43 percent of African-Americans and 42 percent of Hispanics. When consumers arrive at a dealership, they have a good idea of what they want and how much they are willing to pay for it, making the purchase process more efficient and putting them at an advantage. Mr. Reed wonders if the rise in satisfaction is due to the widespread use of incentives and low-interest financing made available since September 2001, not specifically because of the increased dealer performance. ART wondered the same thing — so we asked that very question in our survey. The result: the characteristic those consumers liked the MOST about their new vehicle purchase or leasing experience was the vehicle itself, according to 24 percent of respondents; 11 percent named the service they received from the sales department; and only 8 percent said the price.

Simply stated, Americans are walking into showrooms more informed and confident than ever before, and dealers are meeting or exceeding their expectations. Maybe it's time to give the last rites to those old negative stereotypes about car dealers.

Your response seems to indicate consumers are more educated — primarily through the Internet and sites like Edmunds.com — and that's why they are happier with their dealership experience; a position we wholeheartedly agree with. Also, we find it interesting that the product itself is what the largest number of your respondents identified as the favorite aspect of their car-buying experience. The service from the sales department was a distant second, with less than half the percentage points — 11 percent — for the service staff. So, the product has gotten better and consumers have become more educated about the buying process, thus reducing their chances of being skewered by the dealership when they go to buy a vehicle. It's difficult to see how these factors indicate a need to "give last rites to those old negative stereotypes about car dealers." — Ed.


Subject: Lemon Law
From: Claire

Do you know if one can sell a car "as is" without liability?

I've heard scary things about the lemon law in Massachusetts. One car dealer we were THINKING of trading in my car with said we'd be crazy to sell it ourselves because if something went wrong — WE would have to cover the cost of repairs — even if it was more than the cost of the car. I have a feeling that's bull — but what's your take on it?

A dealer feeding a consumer bull just to ensure a sale through their own lot? That sounds like an out-of-date stereotype…

The term "lemon law" refers to a consumer protection law against flawed cars sold by dealers, not private parties. If you sell a car "as is" and represent it accurately to the buying party, you'll have taken all the necessary steps to avoid a frivolous lawsuit. When it comes to legal protection, there are no absolute guarantees, but thousands of cars are sold by private parties everyday. — Ed.


Subject: Advertising Fees
From: Shawn

I am a car salesman who recently read an article by Consumer Reports that was meant to warn consumers of how evil salesmen are. I wrote a response to them because I thought their article, and general mentality, was unfair. I also felt they were shady to sell invoice pricing that can easily be obtained through sites like yours. I am sending copies of this to other written and electronic news media in case you are interested in telling both sides of the story. I have read your "Confessions of a Salesman" and I feel that it was mostly fair, and I recommend your site to customers. Please let me know if you are interested.

Also, on your invoice pricing, you do not include marketing assessment which is usually around $500. Yahoo notes that it exists and CR gives it. Please make some sort of note on the site that it exists so my customers do not look at me crazy when I mention it.

Advertising fees are assessed by regional ad groups and are placed on invoices for those dealers that participate. We capture invoice prices at a national level and thus do not generally reflect these special regional adjustments. We are often asked if these are legitimate expenses and we acknowledge that they certainly are real costs to the dealer. But by looking at Edmunds' TMV, we account for these extra fees. Consumers who try to match our invoice prices to the dealers are missing the big picture. We have already given you the fair market price you can expect to pay for a certain car in a specific market. — Ed.


Subject: Confessions of a Car Salesman
From: Randall

Your exposé on the trials and tribulations of car salesmen (and women) was notably enjoyable, but brought many good, and some not so good, memories of my own foray into the murky world of car sales.

I spent about a year in the biz and without exception every single one of your examples and stories were 100 percent accurate. Did we work in the same place at the same time? I wonder….


Subject: Focus With Mazda 6 Engine
From: Ben

It is my understanding from the Edmunds Town Hall that in N.Y., Mass. and Calif., people can now buy a Ford Focus with the new 2.3-liter, four-cylinder engine from the Mazda 6. I've driven the 6 and loved it, but it is a little out of my price range. If they are putting that same engine in the Focus, though, that makes it a mini-6, sort of. My question is whether the esteemed editors of Edmunds know more about this engine change and if so when will the rest of the country (I'm in Michigan) benefit from it? I love Edmunds! Nothing else even comes close! Thanks!

The 2.3-liter PZEV engine that's now available in the Focus in certain states is, in fact, the same engine used in the Mazda 6, but due to its stricter emissions controls it generates less horsepower and torque than the equivalent engine in the Mazda. This engine will be available in all non-SVT Focus models nationwide roughly a year from now. — Ed.


Subject: Gas Guzzler Question
From: Max

I have a gas guzzler tax question for anyone who can help me be better educated. I am going to negotiate a purchase price for a 2003 Cobra tomorrow. The dealer (very friendly person) faxed me the window sticker. The numbers matched exactly with Edmunds'. However…the dealer's window sticker has a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. This price is not specifically mentioned by Edmunds. Consequently, I am now unsure about my offer. Here's a little background about my car-buying record: I have never paid over invoice for any new car I have purchased. This includes the 2002 Acura TL Type-S and the 2001 Maxima 20th Anniversary Edition that I have bought in the past. I wish to offer the invoice price for the Cobra, but I'm not sure if Edmunds includes the $1,000 gas guzzler tax. Can anyone help me with this matter? Thank you!

Bottom line…no. Gas guzzler tax is a "below the line" add-on. TMV is the purchase price before adjustments such as sales tax, gas guzzler tax, luxury tax, smog, etc. — Ed.


Subject: Mini
From: Ronald

I do not care for and do not appreciate the political editorial comments made by D. John Booth in the follow-up test of the 2003 Mini Cooper S. That kind of cutesy personal political opinion is out of place in a car review. The writer should focus on something about which he has knowledge or experience — or get a lesson in writing.


Subject: Mini Cooper Follow-Up
From: Jay

I just wanted to say that I love Edmunds, but I could live without the caustic political remarks as seen in the first paragraph of the article (2003 Cooper S follow-up). No big deal, it's just the last thing I want to read while relaxing with an expectedly good piece of automotive journalism. I get my fill of political satire elsewhere, from more relevant sources.


Subject: Better Leave Bush Out Of It
From: Dave

With war approval ratings hovering around 80 percent, and U.S. discontent with the French at all-time highs, why would you attack George W. Bush as the leader of an administration that has failed diplomatically? It would be a lot easier to say that the French failed diplomatically, considering there are 49 countries supporting our action in Iraq. The way I see it, those that oppose this war are more opposed to George W. Bush than they are to the liberation of an oppressed people whose leader is a threat to the world. But that's just me… and about 80 percent of this country, so let's leave the politically charged anti-Bush rhetoric out of your otherwise excellent articles.


Subject: Mini Cooper
From: Paul

I just wanted to thank you for your excellent review of the "Works" Cooper S. Edmunds is the best.


Subject: Mini Cooper
From: Chris

Unser... Not Andretti had assault charges. A bit of fact-checking may be in order for your next article.

Unser…Andretti. Whatever it takes… — Ed.


Subject: Quick Saturn Opinion
From: Bill

OK — I am sure you get these all the time, so I will keep this short. Since I haven't the money for a Volvo XC90, I am considering a 2003 Saturn Vue based on the below criteria. Could you just give me a simple buy/don't buy response to my logic (if you have the time or are inclined). Thanks a ton!

  1. Safety
  2. Reliability
  3. Cost
  4. Zero-percent interest for 60 months
The Volvo possesses greater safety technology. Our eight months in a Saturn Vue long-term car have been almost trouble-free in terms of mechanical issues. Still, the Saturn has major issues with regard to build quality and interior materials (they are both substandard), and its driving dynamics can't compare with the XC90. The Vue's drivetrain is solid in terms of power and refinement, but the car's steering and brakes don't inspire confidence. Certainly the Saturn is cheaper, especially with zero percent for 60 months…but sometimes you get what you pay for. — Ed.


Subject: Actual Options
From: Blake

As many potential car buyers have noticed, although many automobiles have hundreds (or thousands) of potential option combinations, the option combos available on given cars at a dealer lot are often somewhat generic. In other words, on a given model, the same three or four combinations of options tend to be very common both within a specific car lot and among dealers.

This is an age-old car-buying problem (Americans have tough problems), but can't Edmunds do something about it? Is there a way that your Web site could track the options that tend to be common on dealer lots? This might save buyers time: if we know that dealers do not commonly stock the all-wheel-drive version with manual transmission AND the built-in baby seat (although such a combination is theoretically available), we can proceed straight to the custom-order process.

Seeing what option combinations are most common may also be interesting from a sociological perspective — maybe you guys can get a research grant?

Just a suggestion.

Strange timing on your suggestion, Blake. We recently added this exact feature to our pricing system. If you go to any of our pricing pages, you'll see that there's a line in the price box called "Typical Options" and below it is a link labeled "Add/Remove" that lets you see these options. It even allows you to change the options that are included in the pricing, but by looking at the options already checked off when the page loads you will get an idea of what each model's typical (or "common," as you called them) options are. — Ed.


Subject: VW Touareg
From: Werener

Mr. Booth states, "Considering that VW has no history of off-roading…" That is not true. The post-war German army (Bundeswehr) extensively used VW vehicles. They were known in the U.S. as "the Thing" and the so-called "Microbus," but in Germany they were built in both two-wheel- and four-wheel-drive configurations. Later replaced by a special "army only" four-wheel-drive car made by VW called the "Iltis." I can tell you from firsthand experience — these vehicles are quite capable off-road.


Subject: Decibel Levels
From: A

I read your review of the Saturn Ion. It was very helpful.

I am interested in comparing the decibel levels (cabin noise) of various models. Not all of the cars I am interested in (Volkswagen Golf, Toyota Celica) contain the decibel level info in your reviews.

After using a search engine, I have not been able to find this information.

Where do you get your information on decibel levels (cabin noise)? Is there some source that can give me noise level specs in various vehicles?

We get our decibel information as part of our instrumented testing process. Our upcoming Economy Sedan Comparison Test has the decibel levels for eight economy cars, including the Ion. You probably don't want to wait that long, so we'll tell you the Ion made 51 dB at idle, 74 at full throttle and 78 while cruising at 70 mph. In terms of noise, it was louder than the Mazda Protegé and the Mitsubishi Lancer. — Ed.


Subject: Kia Sedona
From: John

I have just read your review on the Kia Sedona.

I own a 2002 Kia Sedona.

I recently (well, February 7, 2003) had someone magically appear in my lane, traveling in another direction. I was not able to avoid impact and struck him at about 35 mph. The airbags failed to deploy. We were saved by the crumple zone as everything in front of the drive wheels collapsed. The insurance adjuster decided not to total it, probably due to my replacement coverage.

They are spending close to $10,000 to repair a car that cost me $19,596 to get it off the lot. Kia's airbag system is not compatible with anyone else's and the shop has been unable to find anyone that can test the airbags for me. Only a dealer can provide that service and I'm sure that they will not find anything wrong.

The car is still in the shop after eight weeks because parts have to be shipped from Korea. They have sent the wrong bumper brackets TWICE! I'm wondering whether part of the car is manufactured in North Korea.

The car has less than 3,400 miles on it, but will be taken to a Chevrolet dealer for trade-in on the day that I get it back. I'm going with a Chevy Venture. It has available parts, made mostly in America, and gets better gas mileage.

The Kia was fun to drive. It handled well and was quite responsive. It could pass almost anything, except a gas station. The best mileage that I ever got from it was 17 mpg on a straight trip from just south of Seattle to Vancouver, which is 150 miles of Interstate 5.

Around town it ranged from 10 to 13 mpg depending on the brand of gasoline. It does have two trip meters, which makes it easy to track gas mileage.


Subject: Gray Market
From: Josh

I live in Ohio, very near the U.S./Canadian border, and have recently begun searching for a slightly used Honda Odyssey minivan. I had read your report on Canadian gray market cars several months earlier with interest, "Gray Area, What You Need to Know About Canadian Cars in the U.S." by Tara Baukus Mello, June 19, 2002) and have recently pulled the article again.

As I have been looking at various ways to purchase this vehicle (i.e. dealers, newspapers, Internet) I have been looking through eBay listings as well (also having read your article on purchasing a car through eBay). I have noticed several sellers who are openly selling Canadian vehicles through eBay to the U.S. market. Their feedback ratings are all very positive and very high, and I have even taken the time to e-mail one of the sellers to inquire about his status as a registered importer (of course he assured me he was legit). Is there any way to check these sellers out through some sort of official channels, either through the U.S. or Canadian government? Of course these Canadian Hondas are attractive for their lower sticker price, but how can one tell if the importer is a con artist or an upstanding businessman? Or if he has properly converted the car? Is there any way to enter into such a transaction and know you are not doing anything illegal?!

Thanks for any information you can provide. I love your site and have been reading it religiously for several years now. I never go car shopping without you guys!

Our feeling is that buying a car through all the proper channels (a U.S. dealer selling a built-for U.S. car) offers enough challenges in terms of getting the vehicle you want at a fair price. The extra risk factors (many of which you stated) involved in buying a gray market vehicle more than offset any purchase price savings you might find. Our inability to give you any concrete information on how to proceed with such a purchase is precisely why we can't endorse it. Sorry. — Ed.


Subject: Acura TSX
From: Steven

I very much enjoyed your review of the 2004 Acura TSX. Do you happen to know when it goes on sale? Thanks a lot!

They went on sale April 3. — Ed.


Subject: Carmudgeon
From: Nelleke

I have to say, I had fun reading your article about bad American drivers. It's so true!

I think the problem starts with poor driving skills to begin with — learning how to drive. I grew up in the Netherlands and there you have to have a minimum amount of lessons (by a licensed instructor) before you can do a driving test. And trust me, the driving test in the U.S. is a piece of cake compared to the 45-minute to 1-hour hell they put you through in Holland. But, hell or not, after the 25-plus lessons and exam, you are a better prepared driver. And besides driving, you were also taught driving manners, to move over a lane when a faster car is coming up behind you is only common courtesy. How hard is it to move over a lane to let someone by and move back to that lane if you need to pass a car yourself?

I think they should make lessons (by a driving instructor, not a parent) mandatory and make the driving tests harder. When I had to get my U.S. license, I didn't even have to go on the highway and we were back in 10 minutes. Granted, I already had two driver licenses from two other countries and had been driving for years, but it's not comforting that a 16-year-old gets the same test!

Anyway, great article!


Subject: American Driver
From: Jim

Thanks for the great article. Thankfully, I count myself as one of the better, aware drivers in this country. I, too, put up with the slow, unaware, make-up-applying drivers who think that driving is similar to sitting on the sofa watching TV.

With all the aftermarket mobile video players available these days, I fear that driving a car will soon be exactly like sitting on the sofa watching TV. — Ed.


Subject: Great Article
From: Matt

Kudos on a great read — Carmudgeon: "American Driver, You Ought to be Ashamed"!

Should be required reading for all drivers.

Slow people in the fast lane, inattentive drivers, etc. I see this daily! Learn to drive, folks!

Thanks for the article!


Subject: Honda Rattle
From: Jose

I'm getting the rattle in the front door panels (passenger side only) that you reported in the Honda Pilot long-term drive article in November 2002. Did you ever figure out what it was?

Thanks! Great Web site.

We still don't know what's causing it, but it's so subtle in our car that we honestly haven't put much effort into figuring it out. We'll keep you updated if we find anything. — Ed.


Subject: Definition of a Coupe
From: Linda

I just received the latest edition of the "Coupes and Hatchbacks" newsletter, and the first item is:

"Saturn Prices ION Quad Coupe"

The item went on to say:

"Saturn's four-door sport coupe goes on sale next month with a base price of $14,595, including destination charges. The Quad Coupe will come in two trim levels — 2 and 3 — and will also offer Saturn's VTi continuously variable transmission. Standard equipment on the coupes includes air conditioning and a CD player."

Then the pricing breakdown was listed.

Saturn's terminology for this car has bothered me ever since the car was introduced. They also offer the ION in a sedan model; it being a four-door, they properly label it as a "sedan." But what they label as the "Quad Coupe" isn't a coupe at all. It is a four-door, even if two of those doors are small rear-access doors — but there are four doors nonetheless.

My own conception, as well as popular conception, generally accepted usage and every dictionary entry I can find relating to the term in this context, restricts "coupe" to refer to a car with TWO doors.

My question — a silly one perhaps — is: When was the definition of the term "coupe" expanded to include a model such as the ION Quad Coupe? Perhaps I simply haven't been paying attention.

It became a "Quad Coupe" a few seconds after Saturn's marketing team came up with the term. — Ed.


Subject: Diesel
From: George

Thanks for the well-written article with respect to the latest and greatest from the diesel engine arena. As a person who is in the market for a new automobile this year, and who is also focused on improved gas mileage in his purchase (as well as other factors), I found your article timely and informative. Please keep up the good work in providing insights on the latest trends coming out of Detroit and elsewhere.


Subject: Diesel
From: Thomas

I really enjoyed your article on the new diesel passenger cars. I am a fuel scientist and am following it closely. I started the current biodiesel developments here at the Colorado School of Mines in 1990.

Last year I was driven around in a TDI Audi at speeds up to 250 km/hr on the Autobahns of Germany, and was so impressed that I bought a VW Jetta when I returned. I am currently running 20 percent biodiesel in it and intend to do some tests on 100 percent biodiesel later this spring.

While there is a lot of hoopla about hydrogen cars, fuel cell cars and hybrid cars, we have a practical revolution going on under our noses with TDI diesels. My Jetta gets 20-45 mpg, closer to 100 percent more than the gasoline models and has great torque.

In addition, refining petroleum to gasoline is very energy intensive, while refining diesel is not, so the combined refinery/TDI car efficiency is probably 100 percent more than for gasoline.

I have been asking many people what has happened to give us such high-performance passenger diesels and I get lots of answers — none very firm. Do you have any idea on what they have changed? I have previously owned a diesel VW Rabbit (ugh), Oldsmobile (ugh), and a Mercedes (uh) and they were all dogs here in the mountains of Denver. Now I pass everyone.

I hope you will write more articles for Edmunds on this and other alternative fuels.

The single biggest factor contributing to the modern diesel's excellent performance is technology. For instance, Dodge's new 2003 Heavy Duty Ram uses a high-pressure fuel rail and a new technology called "pilot injection" that improves performance while dramatically cutting the "clatter" normally associated with diesel engines. These and other advanced technologies were not available five years ago, but now they are working to make diesel engines quicker and more refined while also cutting noise and diesel emissions.

We will continue to cover future diesel developments — if we can fit them in between all those Phil Reed articles everyone loves so much. — Ed.


Subject: Diesel
From: Bernd

I would like to offer some constructive criticism for the special report, "Diesel Developments." Specifically, while your highlight of biodiesel is great, I found it to be very misleading. You cite: "Although biodiesel is not available to the American public, some environmentally conscious drivers purchase used oil from restaurants and run their diesel vehicles on straight vegetable oil."

I feel that you went to the trouble to write this article for the diesel novice. Am I wrong? By describing biodiesel this way, you give biodiesel no chance for consideration by the average consumer because you say that the only way to get it is to be some envirofreak who burns waste cooking grease. While I agree it is true that there are such people out there straining used oil in their garages (and God bless them) we all know that the American consumer will not be so active in its fuel procurement. The way one sells the idea of a thing like biodiesel is to show how possibly mainstream it is. You have said that BD is not available to the American consumer, which is factually incorrect. It is available, and in ever increasing quantities, particularly in agricultural states. I think that you should have linked www.biodiesel.org to the article to have your interested readers read more about it and to search for where BD is available at the pump.

I would have also stated that biodiesel is an EPA-certified alternative fuel and that it is being increasingly used for large government and commercial fleets. Its use further reduces emissions and that it is biodegradable and its production helps support American farmers and reduces our dependence on foreign oil….

In short — it's a good article. I hope to see more about diesels — maybe a highlight of the really amazing cars that the rest of the world gets that we don't because of our diesel's high sulfur content — but please make a point to correct this error of BD not being available. Please make a correction to this article or post this in your reader mail on-line.


Subject: Diesel
From: Nate

Thank you for the evenhanded diesel article "Diesel Developments."

I just wanted to point out one inaccuracy: Biodiesel is indeed available to the general public, just not widely available. I drive my 1996 VW Passat TDI on it. There's a fairly up-to-date station listing here: http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/default.shtm

Everything Bernd and Nate stated is technically true, but when we went to www.biodiesel.org we found only 68 fueling stations nationwide. There was one in the states of Florida and Texas, nine in California and 10 in Iowa. There were none in Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma or South Dakota (all states that could be considered "agricultural" in nature). There were also none in Arkansas, Colorado, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin or Wyoming. — Ed.


Subject: Long-Term Volvo?
From: Hunter

Since Volvo started putting a lot of effort into their new car designs, I have put a lot of thought into whether or not I should consider one along with the Audi A4 and BMW 3 Series. However, I have heard that they have some quality problems in the new lines, such as the S60 and S80. Why not replace one of the cars you are getting rid of in your long-term test fleet with a Volvo? It might seem interesting to see if they last, while also pampering you with luxury and safety.

You aren't the only person giving Volvo a second look. The division is one of the only branches of Ford's PAG (Premium Automotive Group) that has actually been profitable in recent years. The product has definitely turned a corner, and we almost got a S60 when it first hit the market (we ended up with a Hyundai Elantra instead — a car that proved to be a mechanically flawless bargain, by the way). We'll keep your Volvo suggestion in mind. — Ed.


Subject: Forester
From: Eric

I read your March '03 long-term test of the 2003 Forester with great interest. I agree with most of your review, except for the pricing part versus the Honda CR-V. I recently compared several mini-SUVs before purchasing a Forester X. CR-Vs are sold at or within a few hundred bucks of MSRP — I've printed out and shown your TMV cost of $22,056 to several Honda dealers locally, and they basically laughed in my face. The lowest price quote was $22,400, and this was from an Internet dealer 120 miles away.

Two weeks ago I purchased my Forester X automatic for $19,974, invoice is $21,064, with your TMV of $21,277. My coworker was so impressed by the Forester, she just placed an order last week for a red automatic XS premium with leather, spoiler, upgraded sound (subwoofer, tweeter, premium speakers), alarm, all the cargo nets/divider, auto-dimming mirror, differential protector, air filtration, rubber mats… for $24,700 even, with invoice of $25,205, your TMV of $25,584. Before purchasing the X, I had also considered a basic XS premium (comparable to the CR-V EX, but with a much larger sunroof and painted bumpers), and was quoted $22,800, invoice of $23,300, TMV of $23,522. This is VERY competitively priced to a Honda CR-V EX.

It seems Hondas sell for close to MSRP and other cars, especially the Forester, sell for under invoice, so don't just compare MSRP pricing.


Subject: Crossfire
From: Al

The article stated that the Crossfire buyer could opt for all-season tires, which are "the first Z-rated (for higher speed) all-season tires on the market." I have had Pirelli P7000 Supersports on my Audi for the past year and a half, which are Z-rated all-season tires.

It seems the Crossfire's optional all-season tires are the first factory offered Z-rated all-season tires, not the first Z-rated all-season tires on the market. — Ed


Subject: Great Job!
From: Alan

Just wanted to say that your Web site is by far the most helpful in terms of conveying all the product information about a particular car (i.e. stats, driving impressions, interior) and applicable pricing/financing terms. Great job!


Subject: Volkswagen New Beetle Convertible Review
From: Jeffrey

Stopping from 60 to zero in 124.3 seconds seems to be a little bit long. Maybe you meant feet.


Subject: New Beetle
From: Gary

"With four-wheel disc brakes teamed with an antilock braking system (ABS), our New Beetle demonstrated respectable 60-to-0 braking distances with excellent pedal feel — our best was 124.3 seconds."

The New Beetle convertible is downright dangerous if it takes over two minutes to brake from 60 mph.

OK, so we goofed. But as punishment for the typo, we made Kelly drive the New Better Convertible to our test facility and repeatedly stop from 60 mph until she did it in exactly 124.3 seconds. — Ed.


Subject: Comparison Test
From: Gage

I went to the Dallas Auto Show this weekend and one car in particular really caught my eye: the Subaru WRX STi. This got me looking into new sporty cars in this price range. What I have found is that by this summer there will be lots of them! It's difficult for me to decide between all the choices. To name a few that got my attention: Track 350Z, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS 300, Maxda RX-8, Lancer Evolution and the aforementioned WRX STi.

I was wondering if you were gonna do a "roundup" article for cars like this. It would really help me if you did. I know that each car targets a slightly different customer, but I would like to know which car achieves its own individual goals the best. And also how they compare against each other. For example, is the Lexus really sporty or luxurious or neither? Is the STi constructed well enough to be compared to the Z? Which car is a poser and which car delivers?

If you would do a roundup like this, I would really appreciate it! Plus it might be fun for you guys, too. Or even if you could post a review of the STi soon, that would be great. Please let me know.

And also, I wanted to tell you that you guys (and gals) do great reviews and have a great Web site. Keep it up!

Our STi story went live today (May 1) and can be accessed via the link above. As for a roundup that would have us driving cars like the RX-8, Evolution, STi and 350Z back to back…I suppose we could suffer through such a test in the near future. Stay tuned, and thanks for the feedback. — Ed.


Subject: Roadside Assistance
From: Travis

Hi — thanks for all the useful info you guys put on The New York Times.

I have a question on roadside assistance as it appears on the page linked here: http://edmunds.nytimes.com/advice/warranties/articles/43094/article.html

Is there an updated version of this chart? (This is from 1999.) It seems to me that Toyota and others have now offered or expanded roadside assistance with new and used cars and I was hoping to get the most current info. Any help is appreciated.

I'm not sure where you get the 1999 reference. The chart on the page you mentioned is completely up to date. In addition, we've added complete coverage of all the certified programs offered by the manufacturers. You can find the story here: http://edmunds.nytimes.com/advice/cpo/articles/101200/article.html

Hope this helps. — Ed.


Subject: Defensive Driving
From: Stacy

I read your article in the Sunday Magazine section of L.A. Times a few weeks ago and thought this would be the perfect gift for my boyfriend's 16-year-old daughter. The only thing is, she lives on Long Island, N.Y. Can you recommend a school in the greater NYC metro area?

Many of the high-performance driving schools are broadening their scope by offering defensive driving courses. The one on the East Coast that springs to mind is Skip Barber, located at Lime Rock Park, in northwest Connecticut, in Lakeville. — Ed.


Subject: Where to Buy?
From: Raj

Hello, chaps.

May I congratulate you on an excellent and informative Web site — please keep up the good work. I have one question and a comment.

First, I am a British citizen due to move to the U.S. at some point this year. I will have to buy a car shortly after arrival. If I was staying in the U.K. I would buy a Mercedes E-Class 220 diesel wagon. Unfortunately, Mercedes only sells the larger petrol E-Class 320 in the U.S., which is way too expensive for my budget. I would prefer an estate so am considering a used 1999/2000 VW Passat or Jetta estate, Audi A4 or A6 estate or possibly — abandoning the wagon — a 1999 Lexus ES 300. Any ideas on which car would give me the best combination of a quiet ride with good reliability and fuel economy. I'm intending to spend about $20,000. Also, I'm not sure where we will settle so we can buy anywhere in the U.S. — is there any location where better deals are to be had? Would it be an idea to buy in Canada and import?

Many thanks for your kind assistance.

The ES 300 will be both quiet and reliable. After you arrive in the States just use our dealer locator feature (you can follow this link or find it on the pricing pages for a used ES 300). Make sure you follow our 10 Steps to Buying a Used Car, and you'll be fine. We don't recommend buying Canadian cars and trying to import them. — Ed.


Subject: Thanks
From: George

Edmunds is like a policeman pounding a beat and protecting citizens against the criminals lurking in car dealerships.

Yeah, plus we like doughnuts. — Ed.


Subject: Daytime Running Lights
From: Jim

I bought a GM vehicle recently. The biggest mistake I've ever made. Why you ask? I can't turn off my lights. What articles do you have at Edmunds.com on the topic of DRLs?

We've never written a specific article on DRLs, but we can tell you that studies show a slight reduction in accident rates for cars equipped with DRLs. At the same time, we're not fans of cars that never allow you to turn off the headlights (what if your alternator goes out in the middle of nowhere and you need to maximize the distance you can limp along on the battery?). We can tell you all GM and Toyota products have DRLs. This type of feature is listed on our vehicle detail page under "standard equipment" if you scroll down to the "Safety" heading. You can see an example here. — Ed.


Subject: Comfort
From: Becky

I have been searching your site for months. It is great! I am trying to find the most comfortable riding car, though, and can't seem to find info on this subject. People who have medical problems need a soft riding car. Hard to find these days since everything rides like a European sports car. We don't particularly feel well enough to test-drive every car in town. Can you help?

Comfort is such a subjective characteristic that it's difficult to say which car is right for you. However, generally speaking, any Lexus (except the IS 300 and the SC 430 with run-flats) will have a very forgiving ride. The same is true of any Buick or Cadillac. As you noted, most European cars have a firmer ride, so stay away from those if this is your primary concern. Since you probably also want something that is easy to get into and out of, an SUV like the Cadillac Escalade, Lexus RX 330 or Buick Rendezvous probably isn't a good idea. I'd try driving a Cadillac Seville, Cadillac DeVille, Buick Park Avenue and Lexus LS 430. One of those should fit your needs. — Ed.


Subject: Car Buying
From: Ed

The information you provide is invaluable.

Yet it still seems that this whole process is more difficult than it should be.

Several years ago you suggested a profit of 2.5 to 3.5 percent on a car was reasonable for the dealership — is that still applicable?

I am in the middle of negotiating a lease on a new BMW Z4 3.0 for myself and a lease on a new Honda Accord for my girlfriend. It appears (and I stress — appears) that I am doing a little better than TMV on the BMW, I am right at TMV on the Honda. But I was thinking that a 3-percent profit for the dealership is sufficient.

Any thoughts on the profit margin?

The profit varies depending on how "in-demand" the car is. When cars are just coming into the marketplace, and are hard to find, they demand higher prices. These prices vary substantially, hence the beauty of TMV — we have done the research for the buyer. If you are already below TMV then you are doing better than the average buyer out there. — Ed.


Subject: Audi
From: Steven

Hello, I just totaled my A4 2.8 Quattro five-speed after slipping on some black ice and hitting a tree. It was very safe and I am fine, but I was wondering what you thought about the 2000 A6 2.7T with a six-speed transmission. Do you think that one of those with 58K miles would be as fun as a '99.5 A4 2.8 Quattro? I test-drove one today but couldn't get a good feel for it because I was driving with a salesman. I didn't know if it was as "flingable" as my previous A4. I like spirited driving and was wondering if you could give me any guidance at all. I read your site religiously but cannot find any site that compares the different Audi cars with themselves. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I am 20 years old, and will be getting money from collision insurance. Thank you.

First, glad to hear you're OK despite a totaled A4. Proof that: A) modern cars have amazing safety systems, and B) even all-wheel drive doesn't make one invincible when it comes to driving on slippery surfaces.

An A6 2.7T with a manual transmission will be an entertaining ride, but not as tossable as the lighter A4 due to sheer physics. If you're really into the "fun" aspect of driving, the A6 may feel a bit lethargic compared to the A4 (though it's still a fun car in its own right). — Ed.



Subject: Mustang History
From: John

Nice job done on the Mustang. I write historical articles for several U.S., Canadian and U.K. automobile publications and recognize an excellent job of research when I see it. In addition, I own a 1965 HyPo coupe and have researched it through several Mustang guides. Your excellent article could stand appearing in those guides as well.

Nicely done.


Subject: Not an SUV
From: Mark

I don't see how you can go ahead and call the Honda Element an SUV if it's only two-wheel drive.

That's like calling the VW beetle a dune buggy.

The Element is also available with all-wheel drive — and have you ever seen a Manx? — Ed.


Subject: Safety Features
From: Mike

I'm looking for definitions or descriptions of a couple safety features available. Within the next two months, I plan to buy either a 2003 Honda Odyssey EX or a 2004 Toyota Sienna LE with or without Option Package 7. I understand the 2003 Odyssey comes with traction control and variable assisted steering(?). I understand the 2004 Toyota Sienna LE with Option Package 7 comes with traction control, vehicle stability control system and electronic brake assistance(?). I found useful articles at Edmunds' safety section on traction control and vehicle stability control system — I'm not completely sure if they are worth the extra $2,400-$2,900 for the Sienna's Option Package 7 though. However, I have not found a definition of: o electronic brake assistance that is supposed to come with the 2004 Sienna LE with Option Package 7. o variable assisted steering on the 2003 Honda Odyssey EX. Can you define these two safety features? Thanks for your time.

Electronic BrakeAssist will apply full braking force if the car's sensors think you're in an emergency situation that requires full braking but the driver is not applying enough brake pedal pressure to activate ABS. It comes out of research that indicates many drivers have more braking power at their disposal than they realize, and thus they don't apply enough brake pedal pressure and don't reap the benefits of ABS. We wrote a story about it back in 1998 called "Fixing Antilock Brakes".

Variable assisted steering is a steering system that changes the amount of power assist depending on how fast the vehicle is traveling. At low speeds you generally want more power assist to minimize the effort required to turn the steering wheel when, for example, you're parallel parking. But at higher speeds, you want less power assist so that you can experience better "road feel" through the steering wheel. Variable assisted steering is supposed to provide both characteristics in one car. — Ed.


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